News

New Rule on SIYE

JKR has been very generous in allowing us to borrow her characters, but that could end at any time. She has developed their characters. If you are going to write Harry Potter Fan Fiction then you have to use her characterizations. You can have other characters behaving inappropriately, but not her characters.

Earlier this month, I asked authors to change the way they handle the characters borrowed from JKR and the Harry Potter series. I asked you to stop writing stories where the characters were behaving so out of character that they were unrecognizable. I gave you some examples.

However, the trend to trash the characters has not changed. Looking through the validation queue shows me that you didnâ€™t think I was serious. Therefore, SIYE is going to adapt. It has become gratingly clear that a new rule has to be established. After much discussion between staff and members, the following rule will take effect immediately.

You will find it under General Submission Rules on the Help page on SIYE.

PUBLICATION ON SIYE IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT! Therefore, you should be aware that your story may be refused on plot, characterisation or other grounds if it is determined to be incompatible with SIYE's aims.

In particular, Harry and Ginny should be plausibly in-character; you're writing about them, not original characters who happen to have the same names. The characters don't belong to the writer, but to JKR. The SIYE Staff has an obligation to treat them respectfully.

The following are a few examples, please keep in mind they are not all inclusive:

â€¢ JKR's Harry is not a drug user, so you can't write a story about him being one.

â€¢ The Golden Trio don't go out at night binge drinking so you can't make them out as drunks.

â€¢ Ginny doesn't shag every guy in her year, so don't make her out to be excessively promiscuous.

Of course, all of the other rules apply as well. Check your spelling. Use proper punctuation and grammar. Find a Beta.

Regards,
Professor Scroll
Head Administrator & VP of Content

on 2008.01.28 - 07:12PM ()

Comments

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:20PM to say:

I agree with this in theory, honestly - but I do have to ask: Where does this leave stories like Normalcy? Or the AU genre in general?

Pooky came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:27PM to say:

I love SIYE and the characters of Harry and Ginny. I personally would probably never write the Trio and/or Ginny as drug users, drunks, or sexual deviants. However, I must say that the Trio and Ginny are human beings. Stories (especially good ones) are about human beings, and one of the things that you have to conted with when you write stories about humans is human sin/corruption. Harry, Ginny, Trio are not saints or angels. Humans fall, humans make mistakes. Real good people sometimes become drug users, drunks, and sluts when they make bad choices or have lapses of character. While think it would be wrong to portray Harry, Ginny, the Trio in this light just for the heck of it, they might be vaild characterizations in a well done story that focuses on the fragility of human nature. Just my personal thoughts.

Bkane3 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:29PM to say:

I don't know, I think it shouldn't be too hard to wrtie Harry and the gang as normal people without going over the edge. Normal people with normal problems, just not so extreme.

tear_away came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:43PM to say:

Does this mean that for example you couldn't write about the Golden Four going out to a club one night? (Obviously in a story based after their time at Hogwarts, as in when they're adults, with adult rights)

I stand behind this rule especially when it comes to the extreames of a character being a drunk or a drug addict but would ask the same question as above. Where does the leave AU story tellers?

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:46PM to say:

I could probably end up writing an essay on this topic, so I will try to keep this as short as possible:
I am always surprised at the ease, certain authors use the above mentioned examples. As I do not enjoy reading such stories, I simply avoid them.
JKR defined her characters well. But she also defined the world in which they live. The Wizarding world (at least the one in UK) is a fairly anachronistic society. I am sure it has its drunks, drug addicts and 'sluts'. Then again, I don't think such people are common, and from what I can tell from JKR's depiction of this world, they are probably thrown out.
I will not dwell on the psychology of the situation (and I probably could) because this post comment would become four or five times longer. That being said, trust me when I say that chances of these situations arising, with the main characters as the protagonists, are very slim.
We are led to believe that Wizards and Witches marry young and thus I hardly think there is any time for sexual relationships before marriage, let alone promiscuous behavior. Just take a look at the family values that are shown to the children (Weasleys' are a fine example).
Drug addiction is another thing. There is no mention of drugs in the world. I'm sure there is some potion abuse, but how easily are they obtained?
Finally, alcohol... This is probably the most delicate problem of all. I can see the characters stumbling here, but look at the ties between them. This makes me hard to believe that their fall would be permanent.
Finally, it all really depends on the author. If he can pull off a believable set up for such stories, then I salute him. If he uses it as plot device with no prior reason, or simply as a cheap source of angst, then he has nothing to look for on this site.

Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 07:55PM to say:

I've alwasy thought that Alternate Universe was just that. A different setting for our same characters. Why should they be out of character just because they've changed settings. You are still using JKR's characters and therefore, you should respect the parameters that she has set for them.

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:04PM to say:

I just don't want to see good stories lumped into the same categories as the types of stories you're talking about, honestly. That's sort of the benefit of AU - seeing characters that are essentially the same sometimes respond drastically differently. Normalcy's Harry and Meaning of One's Molly come to mind.

One's personality is one part genetic and one part experience, after all. Following that logic, any AU character can believably behave OOC for a canon character, simply because they've had different experiences and therefore act differently.

Melkior: I agree about the drug/potion abuse. Alcohol can be handled many ways - there can be casual drinking, and then I've seen people go overboard with Harry as a sopping drunk, which I just can't see. (Unless it's an AU where everyone's dead, in which case - hey, it's understandable.) I *do* disagree on the sexual behaviour issue, though. They're all still human - there's no reason to think they're different than any other teenagers.

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:14PM to say:

elaithin: Actually there is, especially when purebloods are concerned. Human sexual behavior has always been dictated by their environment and social rules/views. As I said the Wizarding world is anachronistic, and as such, its sexual norms and morality obviously differ from our own. To add to this, the average loss of virginity for Britain is above 17 years. And we're talking about the modern world here.
Teenagers are always teenagers, and that's true, but there's a big difference in what they feel comfortable with, due to how their families/environment brought them up.
I find this to be a common misconception that the Wizarding world values are the same as our own. I don't avoid fics that feature main characters having sex, but I also have a certain limit I don't like seeing crossed. In any other type of fiction, I wouldn't mind. But here it seems wrong.

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:16PM to say:

And I would argue that MoO:Molly is very much in character.

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:17PM to say:

Melkior: When the characters are underage, I couldn't agree more. As we get into more and more post-DH stories, however, I expect it's something that will become much more common. Though I am, perhaps, a bit biased, because it's one of the (many) issues I'm dealing with in my own story ;) .

Bkane3 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:39PM to say:

I can see a character from the foursome possibly getting drunk, and regretting it. I can see sex between a couple for certain reasons, it depends on the story.

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:45PM to say:

Post-DH stories are another matter completely. Most authors tend to engage, or marry their characters before throwing them into sexual relationships. Even if they don't, we're talking about young people who are past the age of consent and considered adults. This is quite different. My thoughts have been directed at Hogwarts years. After all sex and promiscuity are very different things.

Bkane3 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:48PM to say:

Precisely. Upon looking closer at the new rules, it says you can't make Ginny "Excessively Promiscuous" Having sex with one's fiance wouldn't be considered excessively promiscuous, I wouldn't think. Getting a little drunk one time wouldn't be considered binge drinking either. IT's the extremes that are a no-no, and I agree with it.

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 08:57PM to say:

Right - that's not my issue. As Melkior said, MoO Molly is very much in character - for her universe. I just think the application of this rule is going to get fuzzy when it comes to AUs.

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 10:08PM to say:

Actually, my opinion is that Molly is in character for the situation. The universe here plays a lesser role.

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 10:15PM to say:

Right, I meant situation. Sorry - cold meds are fogging me up.

griffindorechicky101 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 10:22PM to say:

OK SO I SO AGREE TO THIS! I MEAN IF YOU WANNA WRIGHT A STORY WERE HARRY IS DRUG ADICT AND THEY DRINK AND GINNY IS PRACTICLY A SLUT! YOU ARE IN SANE! SORRY IF THAT IS MEAN ! I JUST LIKE TO SPEAK MY MIND AND TELL YOU HOW I FEEL. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME! GIANNA ALSO KNOW AS.(A.K.A) GRIFFINDORECHICKY101

Kezzabear came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 10:51PM to say:

Um, yes that is a little mean and it's shouting. I don't think we need to call people insane if they want to write that story.
I look at the 'sex before marriage' issue the same way JKR looks at the question of how well homosexuality is recieved. It's the same as in the Muggle world she says. therefore I think that attitudes to sex will be the same as in the muggle world and there is a wde variety of experience in the Muggle world. I myself am a no sex before marriage type of Muggle. Therefore so far my Harry and Ginny are the same. Some authors are obviously not going to be that way inclined so therefore their H/G may choose to have sex before marriage. All these post-Hogwarts decisions need to take into account the JKR characterisations. When exploring these issues with these characters they need to behave in character. ie. if Ginny turns him down for sex he doesn't start slapping her, Harry loves her and is very noble and has a saving people thing - he doesn't slap anyone, especially not Ginny. Further to that I recall JKR saying she had a nineteen yr gap between the end and the epilogue beasue she DIDN'T want them all jumping into bed and marriage with each otehr and promoting teenage sex and parenthood. She leaves parents together in the wizarding wrold because "it is a children's world". I do not think it would be out of line for me to say that she would not want Harry taking drugs drinking etc as it would be a bad example for the children/young people. FOr that reason alone it is a good enough reason to respect the sorts of examples she wanted her characters to set and I think we can safely say she didn't want them being drug takers or whores exactly for the example they are to her younger readers.

harry_ginny1234 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 11:00PM to say:

I have to agree with the new rule. I just hope that it won't cause me to have to withdraw my own story. It is AU, and the characters acct a bit out of character, but they are generally the same character. I hope some others will take the hint here though. i am gonna shut up now because I tend to talk too much

notadryeeye came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 11:30PM to say:

I know my story has been mentioned a few times on here so I thought I'd just throw in my two cents on this issue. First off, my story is a bit unconventional and I have things happening to Harry, like losing an arm and my whole horcrux scenario, that are not exactly cannon. But I believe that my characters still retain their basic characteristics and mannerisms. Harry is with Ginny and they are very much in love. Ron and Hermione are together and are working alonside Harry to defeat Voldemort. And in the end, those virtues and the basic essentials of the characters and JK's universe are there. What SIYE (or what I believe they are trying to take care of) are the stories that take our characters and make them something their not and that JK never intended them to be. I hope I'm not ruining the characters in my story. Harry is still be the hero, and underneath everything I've done to him, he is that flawed figure who is fighting to achieve what is right. Along the way I've put him through horrific things and been very tortuous, but whatever I make Harry do, I always try to go back to those basic instincts he's always portrayed. So basically after that, I hope nobody's worried about my story or any AU's. I believe it's just the stories that do make the basic characters immoral or so off character that the only things that remain are the names of the characters. I know i've written a lot, but I felt the need to write after being mentioned here. THanks!

lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 11:39PM to say:

notadryeeye Your story is exactly what AU should be. AU should be alternate events that could have happened during the HP world timeline, but the basic characters stay true to JK's creation. My story is the same as yours in that events changed after book six and are not what JK wrote, but the characters JK created are behaving as they would have in her world, or as best as I can interpret them to have behaved. It's ok if Harry loses an arm, as long has he behaves as the real character in the novels would have behaved under such circumstances. Keep up the good work and don't worry about being mentioned.

wolfsgurl came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.28 - 11:40PM to say:

I like the new rule-- partially. I agree that yeah, a story where Ginny is -less than honorable- or where Harry's a drunk for no reason, are a bit over the top. But I dont have any kind of grudge against stories about the Trio and Ginny where they are considered OOC, if that OOC Harry/Ginny/Ron/Hermione/whoever is well developed as a character, with good, believable, in-character reasons to having become that way. If Harry turns to drinking in a story where he, say, loses Ron and Hermione, that might be his only way of dealing with the pain of their deaths, or somethinng. Or in stories where Harry had an even more violent childhood (I'm thinking of Saving Harry, in particular) its ok for him to be different than the Harry in the books, as long as the author doesnt over do it. But Harry suddenly being a drunk because the author feels like making him one, is not OK, nor is him suddenly becomeing violent and reclusive because he "suddenly" realises how bad his life is. After that rather sudden rant... I'm going to shut up now. I just wanted to put that out there.--wolfsgurl

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 12:01AM to say:

notadryeye - I never meant to imply that you were ruining the characters at all. I'm sorry if it came off that way, because I love your story. But my concern is with the idea of "Canon Harry didn't do this, so your story's Harry can't do this". Your Harry's actions are perfectly in-character for your story, though they're not what canon Harry would do - because canon Harry hasn't been in that situation. And now, I think I'm talking circles around myself, so I'll shut up and hope my point's been understood...

Sovran came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 12:24AM to say:

I think that the key difference is between a character's reaction to a situation and an author's manipulation of the character itself. The whole point of an AU (in my opinion) is to explore how the same characters would respond to new and different situations. In a long story, this creates a whole series of different situations, such that the character who emerges from the end of the sequence may not bear much resemblance to the canon character who started the sequence. The big point there is that the process of change is shown on the page.
The contrast, as others have stated, is when an author manipulates the characterizations such that the characters behave strangely for no apparent reason. Using my own plot devices as an example: no one would accept that canon-Molly could physically attack Harry during the second book. The very thought is ludicrous. In an AU, however, where the same characters have been presented with different situations, that scenario is (I hope) at least vaguely plausible.

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 12:49AM to say:

You're writing a story where Molly attacks Harry!?! Are you insane? I can't believe I'm hearing this...
Does Harry fight back? :)

Sovran came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 12:57AM to say:

Of course. Very effectively, over a period of several years.

zoemcfoe came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 01:13AM to say:

As someone who's strictly a reader on this site, I don't have a dog in this hunt, so to speak. But for what it's worth, I applaud the rules and think they'll preseve not only the charcterizations JKR created, but also the quality of the work posted. I'd imagine it's relatively easy to write a story with characters named Harry, Ginny, Ron, etc., without trying to stay true to the complexities of personality JKR gave them. Well ,as easy as writing anything is, which is *not very*. ITA that the only relationship a fair number of those stories have to HP is the characters' names, and some seem written mostly for shock value. But to put Harry, Ginny, Ron, etc. in new situations in which they react, interact and speak just as they might if JKR had written the story...well, that's true talent indeed. Stories like that (such as Normalcy) are a credit to the HP universe, even though they explore AU situations that would never have been addressed in the books. If I were writing a story, I think I'd imagine JKR looking over my shoulder and act accordingly (and that terrifying thought is probably why I've never written a thing). Abusing her stories wouldn't be an option. As Professor Scroll says, these characters are JRK's toys, and she's free to take them away at any time. What a loss it would be for everyone if she did...that's all, I'm going back to the readers only corner now.

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 01:28AM to say:

Umm... At first glance, this rule is promising. I won't tell you all the weird fics I've encountered over the years (Harry Potter in Pride & Prejudice, for one, or Harry Potter re-written like a King James Bible, for another), yet we'll just have to wait and see how the rule affects things. All I wonder is this: will the Admin team retract any rule that was sound in theory but deemed to be unrealistic or difficult to implement in practice?

By the way, this new rule appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to a bevy of poorly-written and/or overly-cliched stories that have been posted regularly on SIYE since Deathly Hallows came out...makes one wonder...

Miss Dreadnault came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 01:54AM to say:

Our rules are reconsidered occasionally by the staff to ensure that each rule is fair and can be implemented in a way to help the writers write better, and give readers good quality stories. If a rule turns out to be bad or can be improved in any way, we as a staff will consider it and then vote and make a decision. For this particular rule, I would just like to say that we, as the staff, feel that by implementing this rule we are helping the writers to write stories that will not only be pleasing to the readers but will not abuse the characters that JKR has lent us. I know there is some concern about AU stories. Please don't belabor the "What if's." Please just use common sense. There are many good examples of AU stories on our site. If you have any questions about your story, please feel free to contact the staff. We are here to help you!

QwayMelqnu came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 02:38AM to say:

I don't see a problem with the rule. As long as I'm interpreting it correctly. I'm reading it as a way to prevent "excessive" differences from JKR's original characterisations...

As long as Harry doesn't end up a Chip'n'Dale and Ginny doesn't end up as the town drunk, then you should be okay with a little sensible adversity every now and then.

There should obviously be a bit of leway when it comes to AU, or Post-DH stories, since the issues mentioned in the rule are a fact of life. You just have to be believable with the way JKR's characters would deal with them.

I'm really hoping that I'm correct in my interpretation, because with my "Seven-Year War" story, Harry gets drunk once, and he and Ginny both are involved in sexually active relationships (well into their 20's of course) during the course of the story.

I honestly have done my best to have my characters react they way they would as if JKR was writing my story, and I've gotten a lot of compliments on doing it so well. So I hope what I've done fits within the guidelines of the new rule. Otherwise...well I dunno what'll happen :(

MyGinevra came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 08:56AM to say:

I have mixed feelings about the new rule. On the one hand, I agree with wolfsgurl and others that if an OC trait such as drunkenness is not developed as part of a well-constructed plot, then it should not be published on SIYE; otherwise it's just pornography. But, if Harry thinks he has lost Ginny and gets drunk for a month, then that would not necessarily be OOC, even as JKR has defined him. On the other hand, there seems to be a troika of disallowed sins: promiscuous sex, drunkenness, and drug use. What if someone wrote a fic where Harry and Ginny renounced magic and decided to live in Little Winging and water their lawn every evening? I can't imagine anything more OOC. Would that be disallowed? I don't think so. Does it mean that OOC stories will be rejected only if they concern the three deadly sins? My fics do not introduce drug or alcohol abuse, but they do involve pre-marital sex. Melkior mentioned above that the average age in Britain of a first sexual experience is seventeen. Two points about that: one, it means that lots and lots of people have sex BEFORE they are seventeen. Two, people in the wizarding world come of age a year earlier than in the Muggle world. I therefore conclude that the average age of first-time sex in the wizarding world is sixteen. That's why in my fics they teach birth control at Hogwarts. (I've read other fics, also, where that happens; they are usually quite amusing.) Finally, I have a question about one statement in the post on the home page. It states that Ginny is not allowed to be "excessively" promiscuous. Frankly, I can't imagine anything more out-of-character than Ginny being AT ALL promiscuous. If Ginny is to be allowed "non-excessive" promiscuity, then what about "non-excessive" drug use or drunkenness? This points out that enforcement of the new rule will come down to interpretation by the admins. That does not bother me; it is their job. There is a danger of unfairness, though, which I kindly hope keep in mind.

GREYWOLF came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 09:27AM to say:

I fully agree with the new rules. After all I was one who requested them. I do not wish to read stories in which H/G (or other characters) are behaving pathalogically. And I believe we can trust the Administrators to apply the rules with common sense. I'm sure we all agree that authors must have some leeway in order to write good stories. It's what the courts have said about pornagraphy, it is hard to define, but you know when you see it.

hopeless romantic came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 09:39AM to say:

I wholeheartedly agree with the new rule. I love Harry and Ginny and couldn't get enough of them with the HP series so I turned to fanfiction. I love the Harry and Ginny that JKR created because they are the way they are. I don't want to read about totally different characters who just happen to have the same name. I tend to avoid those stories. As for AU, I don't think that should be a problem--circumstances and settings can be different, it doesn't change who Harry and Ginny are and how they handle themselves. I know several authors who do AU very well!

Chatmandu came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 09:49AM to say:

"Ginny doesn't shag every guy in her year, so don't make her out to be excessively promiscuous." Of course she didn't! Although I have it on good authority from Pansy Parkinson and Rita Skeeter that she tried. Sorry, couldn't help that. But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with those rules. I find it a bit disturbing to run across NC-17 (or "R" here) stories about characters who are 14/15 year olds.

jedge1 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 09:57AM to say:

When I first read about this, I was concerned how it would be taken, and how it would be applied/enforced. I think that the attitudes of everyone that's left their thoughts here is quite positive. I think the rule is a positive thing as well. While not a writer, I am an avid reader, and though I'm not listed as such, I do help some folks out now and then with beta stuff. You have NO idea how much I hate getting into reading (for myself, or others) a story only to find it's a slash fic, Hr/Snape fic, etc. THESE are the types of stories that I think this rule is coming out of. General AU such as what Melkoir, MyGinevra and QwayMelqnu write (love all 3 of your stories folks, thanks!), shouldn't be affected.

kingbobrules came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:08AM to say:

I think this rule is good, because it gives the admin grounds to refuse stories that they feel aren't in the spirit of the Harry Potter universe that don't necessarily break any other rules. But I hope it's used sparingly with a dash of common sense! I've read some of the other comments where people are worried about characters in stories that are already out there and I think as long as the rule is applied sensibly, most writers have nothing to worry about. It might be interesting to see over the next few months if there are any problems with clashes of the american/british cultures in enforcing this rule, but I'm sure if we all keep our heads, it should be just fine.

JediJenny came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:16AM to say:

I think that it is a good idea in theory. There are plenty of other fanfic sites where you can find whatever it is that you are looking for. I think that the problem will arise when it comes to implementing it. Where will the line be drawn? What will be considered OOC besides the examples given.

Spenser Hemmingway came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:26AM to say:

I only regret that we had just a glimpse of Surfer Dude Ron.

QwayMelqnu came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:57AM to say:

Actually, that brings up another point. I've had a few little plot ideas for some short silly comedic fictions, but I'm not sure if they'd be allowed anymore under this new rules' current guidelines. A lot of the funniest stories I've read involve the main characters doing or saying something completely off-the-wall and OOC.

Would JKR honestly be that upset in this case? Or does it just involve negative character flaws like sex, drugs and violence?

Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 11:29AM to say:

I would like to make a point about alcohol and drug use. Prior to this rule, SIYE already has had a posted rule that reads:

Please do not reference characters in your story using illegal drugs or alcohol - especially by the main characters.

And, even though this has been in effect for over a year, we still have allowed stories about Harry getting drunk. Having a drink or getting smashed at your bachelor party, or on your birthday is quite different than using alcohol as the driving force of your story.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 02:07PM to say:

QwatMelqnu, I've written stories that cast a Chestburster as Harry's chest monster, stories that have Luna becoming a sniper, and stories that send Harry and Ginny ricocheting between film universes. So I wouldn't worry too much about comedy fics. As long as they're acting in a way that is compatible with their character, given the situation they find themselves in, you'll be fine.

lolamadrid came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 03:48PM to say:

Does this mean that all stories that portray Dumbledore as straight will be purged from the site?

free_spirit came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 04:22PM to say:

I'm one of those who needed to change my story because SIYE found it out of character, but I'm okay with that, it's their site, they decide. But I think that there is a very big risk that many authors will leave SIYE, simply because it's hard to get a story in. I have noticed over the years that less and less stories are posted at SIYE, or atleast it's harder to find the good ones. I do of course understand this rule, but maybe it's not for the best at all times.

Kezzabear came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 06:37PM to say:

I think it's an overreaction to assume that stories where Dumbledore is straight will be purged. KR was very celar that him being gay didn't matter or she would have revealed it earlier I suspect. Dumbledore's sexual orientation doesn't change his character and that was one of the things JKR was trying to say! I am afraid, with comments such as the above regarding Dumbledore, that some people might be misunderstanding the idea behind this new rule.

griffindorechicky101 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 07:36PM to say:

I need to aplpogise because the last message i left was not meant as a shout to be rood or disrespectful, and was not meant as a shout. IT was on caps lock but i normally keep my key bord on caps when i message or IM someone so that was the reason for that. If i sounded rood or disrespectful and hurt you in any way i fully applogise that was not my intention. I am just a very opionated person and i like to tell people how i feel about something. There was some one who mentioned that there was no need to call any one insane and if that afended you im trully sorry i was not thinking about it at the time. ONE of the things my mom is always telling me to do is to tell how you feel or no one will be able to fix it or help you, anthour thing she said to me the other day is that its a good thing that i do that but i need to learn when the right time is to say what you feel and that is why she is there to help me learn. After this inscident i think im being to understand what she is talking about. YOu learn alot while you are a teenager and you learn from it . IT is and will always be apart of life and that is what im learning. SO i guess what im trying to say is that IM SORRY for being rood and incansiderate. I aplogise for my behavior and i understand if you are mad at me and why so you dont have to accept it but i tried to applogise and for me doing this and applogising is alot becuase i only ever really have to applogise to one person. Yet right now i have to applogise to thousands of people. thank you for your time. Gianna Shelley AKA(also known as) griffindorechicky101

Diviniti came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 07:58PM to say:

I have to say that I am a bit worried about what will happen if SIYE continues to make certain types of fics prohibited. Right now, I agree that excessive promiscuity, binge drinking, drug abuse, etc. should not be allowed, but what will happen if SIYE continues to constrict? Next to go will be Harry and Ginny having sex before they turn 16, which I wouldn't write, but I have read great stories in which H/G are intimate before Ginny is sixteen. Then do we rule out Harry being a Slytherin? This is what really worries me. It is our experiences that makes us what we are, and the whole point of fiction, particularly AU fics, is that the characters have different experiences, or react in different ways. Should we make a rule that Harry can't use AK? JKR seems to believe that Harry cannot use that particular Unforgivable. What's next, Harry must be best buds with Ron and Hermione? Harry cannot date someone other than Ginny first, as a teenage learning experience (like Cho), and then have a relationship with Ginny? //I know none of this has happened yet, but... I hope that it never does. I do approve of SIYE prohibiting drug abuse, etc, but I'm a bit uneasy. Perhaps what I want is a clearer definition of "excessive difference from canon". // For example, the scene of Lupin telling Harry to use more serious spells than Expelliarmus comes to mind. If my story has Harry learning magic that can kill, because he feels that is his only chance at killing Voldemort, then will my fic be chucked into cyberspace? In canon, Harry sees Cho before even noticing Ginny: if I have a fic that takes 6 years, or over 200,000 words to have Harry and Ginny get together and kiss, then will my story be binned?

melkior came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 08:02PM to say:

I think all of you are overreacting a little bit. If your story hasn't been binned so far, it won't. Simple as that. The rules are quite clear, but it seems to me, that you're trying to push things into the rules. Things that were never mentioned.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 08:41PM to say:

Diviniti, don't worry. We'll only delete fics that annoy me by 20% or more.

(No? Oh, go on... Oh, okay.)

Okay, so my marvellous plan didn't get the nod. But still, seriously, AU isn't going to be a problem. They're still the same characters, even when their situations change. Harry gets put in Slytherin? Okay, see what happens. H and G have sex at fifteen? Well, it would be mildly creepy if I found someone writing about it in any but the most fleeting of descriptions, but it wouldn't be OOC. Much.

And don't worry, we're not on a slippery slope. But a lot of us have become disillusioned with the declining quality of fics - or, more accurately, the way many authors seem to believe they can just scribble down any old nonsense without bothering to put in the work. Research, britpicking, proofreading - these are things authors absolutely must know.

We're trying to raise our standards. Perhaps we'll have fewer stories for a while. But we'll have better ones, and hopefully we'll inspire authors who might not otherwise reach that standard to learn and improve.

Oh, and for anyone who was offended by Griffindorechicky, try not to take things so seriously. And Chicky, for heaven's sake, proofread your posts.

wvchemteach came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:45PM to say:

There is a growing sense that SIYE becoming restrictive might cause writers to seek greener pastures. At this stage in the fandom however that probably won't be an issue. The decline in the number of fics along with the decline with the number of Grade A quality fics began with the release of HBP as JKR began hemming writers into an ever more restricted area to work in and still be canon compliant. You couple that with some of the Titans of this site from the post-OotP era more or less moving on to other things (many trying their hand at original fiction) and you get what has happened the past couple of years. I think overall this move by the admins is an attempt to turn back the clock when it seemed every week we were getting an update of a quality fic like Melindaleo's Power of Emotion or Curse of the Damned, Dolenbyd's Becoming, St. Margaret's Magic Within, Magic Without, or Sib's The Awakening Power. I think that is a laudable goal and personally I think those fics and a few others should probably be required reading before you try your hand at H/G fan fic... it gives you a standard to aim for, which pushes you to become a better writer and rewards all the readers with better stories.

Belcris came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:52PM to say:

Belcris came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:54PM to say:

ShadeXH came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.29 - 10:59PM to say:

I do have one argument to make. In cannon, Ginny's character isn't really fleshed out, and she's not mentioned very much either. We know she had boyfriends, but who knows, she could have had a little action on the side. As for the drug using and alcohol drinking, the characters, while fictional, are still fictional HUMANS. They're still susceptible to those things as everybody else. Taking away the usage of that kind of material is just taking away what writers can do with the universe. You can still have an in-character character who has a drug addiction or a liking for alcoholic beverages. What if, say, a writer has a story. In it, Harry has all of the personality qualities and quirks and that we've come to love/expect. The story is very well written and has a well drawn out and intriguing plot. However, in it, Harry has the habit to light up a joint (or the magical equivalent) when he feels like it. Would you reject the story? Hell, it could be plausible, that boy needs to relax. He's got quite the burden on his shoulders.

NaruKoibito came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 12:32AM to say:

Hmm, to be honest, I believe that many of the above posts have good points to them. I personally feel that yes, this is a good rule, but like someone mentioned before, the only problem would be who is interpreting what is OOC and what is not. Just like ShadeXH mentioned, Ginny's character does have a lot of holes in them -- it's really in fanfiction that those holes get filled (in my opinion at least). Honestly, it was in fanfiction that I first fell in love with Ginny. So who is to say when Ginny is acting not like herself? Sometimes authors make her a very easily angered person, others make her not as easily vexed. Personally, I'm not sure when you can say which one is right. Doesn't it depend on how the author is writing it?

Er, someone mentioned that putting the characters in bizzare situations doesn't change who they are, but no one can be totally the same under different, possibly stressful situations. If Harry was brought up with Sirius, wouldn't he be a different person? I mean, the basics should be the same, but in the long run, wouldn't he be different? Or if Ginny had been abducted as a child, by say a Slytherin family, would she be the same? Somehow...I sincerely doubt it.

As for things like drug using, alcohol, and shagging, wouldn't it depend on the situation? I've encountered many stories in which there are some uses, but they're not addicted. Do cigarettes count as drugs? Doesn't Harry have Fire Whiskey in DH? =/ I'm not trying to be picky about details, but I was just wondering if someone could clarify the exact details of what we can or cannot do.

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 01:52AM to say:

I fully agree with wvchemteach: the new rule is an attempt to bring us back to the halcyon days (before DH) when every day brought a new update from a quality fic... And yes, the Admins are to be commended for striving to keep SIYE from ending up like (dare I say it?) FanFiction.Net.

However, I think we all have to step carefully round the new rule until we know for sure the limits that are to be imposed.

For example, a definition of what exactly constitutes OOC-to-the-point-of-rejection would be helpful. What if Ginny shacked up with Dean Thomas? What if Harry becomes depressed and rather alcoholic after so many deaths? What if Ron had a bit of a potion abuse problem?

Well? Are the above scenarios still acceptable? What is fanfiction but a roundelay of good times and great lives if Harry & Co. have no vices whatsoever? Will Harry Potter fanfiction end up like a saccharine-sweet Disney movie incorporating one-true-love, family values, listen-to-your-heart, beat up the bad guy and waltz out of looming death with nary a scar?

-The Kid-

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 06:48AM to say:

The problem with defining limits is that it gives people a definite point to sidle up to.

it also means that authors will have a tendency to see the line, glance furtively around to make sure no one's looking, then skip merrily across it while giggling and squealing like drunken little imps. on caffeine.

And then we have to break out the big banhammer, and people get hurt, and it gets ugly. So that's why we won't say "Ginny's allowed to have sex with three boyfriends but not four", or "Harry can get drunk a maximum of seven times in the story, but not on consecutive evenings", or "pot's OK, cocaine isn't". Plus, we'd have to define "drunk", "a time" and "sex", which opens up endless comic opportunities but causes more problems than it solves.

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:04AM to say:

True. On the other hand, I'd say the Dark!Harry plot bunnies have been culled - badly - by this new rule. Ah well...

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:15AM to say:

=D - "Umm...Torak...could you define sex?"

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:53AM to say:

Exactly, that's the problem. Where do you draw the line?

At one point, we had a rule that holding hands meant a PG rating, and kissing needed a "Sexual Situations" warning. Clearly that's absurd, but there's a whole spectrum (or so I'm told) of things to do between that and full-on, NC-17 bonkage.

Where do you draw the line? "Kiss me, you fool" or any sentence involving the words "throbbing" or "heaving"? (Although to be fair, that's usually an indicator of abysmal bloody writing rather than excessive eroticism.)

Where do you draw the line? Fingers in illicitly enjoyable places, or any involvement of dangly bits? Or a scene that subtly hints that Ginny's climbed under Harry's desk?

Where do you draw the line? After all, I have it on good authority that Harry did not have sexual relations with that Ginny. While she was under the desk. Um.

(That said, a week or two ago I wrote a fic to see if I could make a totally innocuous situation sound like a hardcore NC-17 fic. It sort of worked.)

Where do you draw the line?

Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 11:09AM to say:

Contrary to popular belief, this isn't a knee-jerk reaction. Over the past year and a half the archivists have asked for this rule to be posted on multiple occasions. You, the readers only see the stories that have been validated. Many validated only after being rejected multiple times for basic spelling and grammar errors. From emails to the staff and reviews to authors a lot of readers don't like the current trend to trash the characters.

A year ago, the average between stories validated to stories returned for work was 70 / 30. Authors took pride in their work. Now, the numbers are reversed. Out of every 10 stories submitted, the archivists validate 3. This is frustrating to the extreme for us. One author's answer to an email was, "I never proofread my stories. I thought that's what the archivists job was." Afraid not, your story should be as perfect as possible prior to submitting it, and you are not writing a text message, so please don't submit stories with - gl2uHary.

Can Harry and Ginny be intimate prior to marriage. Of course, but, SIYE's R rating is very conservative, so don't give us a stroke by stroke description. May Ginny have relations with someone besides Harry, of course. May Harry get sloppy drunk, of course. May any of the characters go into a reclusive blue funk, of course. May they be OOC because of circumstances within your story, of course. But keep in mind, it has to be believable.

The right catalyst may make a temporary change, but again, it has to be plausible to the readers. If not, you've lost them. A reader isn't going to spend their time reading a story that they don't believe in. There are too many others that they could read. After all, having someone read your stories is the point of writing them, isn't it?

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 11:55AM to say:

I think the phrase "stroke by stroke" was, perhaps, slightly unfortunate, in context. ;-)

QwayMelqnu came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 12:06PM to say:

After thinking about it, I don't see this rule affecting any of the stories I've ever read on SIYE, and that would be way more than I could count, so I don't really see this new rule as anything except those few stories that might have something completely OOC like Harry becoming a hardcore rapper or Hermione becoming an advocate for slave labor.

And there's way too much throbbing, heaving and stroking in these comments, I think you horndogs should tone it down, lol.

Leonheart666 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 02:25PM to say:

Typically, I come along when there is some 60 comments previously left. I've not read them all, so I'm sorry if I repeat others points. The rule is a good thing, that cannot be denied. Just creating Harry as a raging alcoholic purely for your stories sake is wrong. However, I do think that it's perfectly acceptable for Harry to become a raging alcoholic (perhaps raging is the wrong word) under the correct circumstances. I won't come up with a random plot on the spot, but you can see how if someone goes through a lot of pain, he will turn to something to dull the pain, and this something could well be drink, drugs or sex. I'm not saying the topic is going to make a good story, but if done tactfully, then it could be a good story. I think Professor Scroll hit the nail on the head with it has to be believable. You can create what you want in a story, but if you can't back it up with some good reasons for it happening, then it's not worth reading, and that's what authors should be trying to do with their plot's, gaining a readership. The final thing I'll add is that JKR wrote her books for all ages. That means kids will be reading them too. I think this is why sex/drugs/drink aren't even implied, let alone described. However, they golden four are teens, and teens have hormones (Harry in OotP proves that wizards do too). how far do you reckon Dean and Ginny went? Well, not far according to JKR and HBP, but they were going out for several months, so it's plausible for them to have even gone the whole way. Doubtful, yes, but we simply don't know due to JKR omitting it from the text. The idea of Harry downing a bottle of Firewhiskey in one (ouch, poor throat) is doubtful, but after all, Winky spent half her time drunk in GOF =)

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 04:01PM to say:

Um... actually, in the books, a whole lot of sex is implied, and alcohol features in at least a couple of places.

muggle_born came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:43PM to say:

The gist of it is, there are stories on here that are just plain terrible. We all know it. I'm pretty much for any decision that helps eliminate those... short of mandatory betas. There's no point in posting on a Harry/Ginny site if what you're really going to do is write about different characters with borrowed names.

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:53PM to say:

Professor Scroll - Ah. I stand corrected.

Torak - I WANT TO SEE THAT FIC! =D

Harry ~~Clinton~~ Potter: I did NOT have sexual relations with that woman...

Jokes aside, what does 'Sexual Situations' mean? E.g. for an 'enlightened' someone, said someone would probably want at least a blouse off and a few heaving chests before a situation could be defined as Sexual.

On the other hand, a more 'conservative' someone might feel that an embrace sparking with tension and a bit of lip-locking is already considered 'Sexual'...

Do I have to tell you what an Orthodox Jew thinks is sexual? =D

sapphire200182 came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 08:57PM to say:

In retrospect, Othodox Jews on this board may be offended by my above politically-incorrect joke. I make no apologies. You can, however, take potshots at me if doing so soothes your riled-up feelings. Just so you get your racially-profiled comments and calls for an Anti-Sapphire200182 Flame Jihad right, I am Chinese.

Me: INCOMIIIIING! TAKE COVER!

Trance Starr came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 10:56PM to say:

Hi, though I completely agree with this new rule (and feel that it could be applied to some stories I've read where harry cheats on Ginny with Hermione, I meand COME ON) but I was wondering if this applies to charcters that are fairly open to participation such as Dean and Parvati and all the littler characters that colour the books so well. i tend to write Parvati alot and while I try to write her as close to charcter as possible, come people may not agree with that interpretation.

ShadeXH came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.30 - 11:29PM to say:

Your remark about Harry cheating is interesting. I think that situation could make for a very good fic, especially if Hermione is already with Ron at the time. Sounds to me like you've just got some Ginny bias. =P

GinnyMarie came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 01:35AM to say:

I am glad to see this rule now. It makes much sense. There are instances when some OOC is accepted, but to the extreme is unacceptable. There are other sites for stories such as that....they are not held as high in my personal opinion, but they are out there. GinnyPotter.com is such an example, as is Fanfiction.net. The QuidditchPitch.org... All of these are examples of sites where you can post completely OC characters with Harry Potter names applied. I agree...and I did not get overly upset when a Collaboration between me and another author was denied. I understood completely where the admins of SIYE were coming from....

I did have far too many commas, and the first chapter was mainly Hermione/Ron based. But there was a reason for that, and because the second chapter had yet to be posted, it was understandable that the admins at siye did not see that it was otherwise.

Again, I agree completely with this new rule, and only hope that the admins do not enforce it to the extreme.

GinnyMarie came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 01:53AM to say:

Oh, Torak, I would be very interested in reading your fic as well. It is sure to be amusing.

I posted my above post before I had had the chance to read Professor Scroll's post. This assauges most of my fears, but still some do remain. I think that, from her post, the main thing is to make any OOC believable, and I do believe all of us can handle such a thing. If not, I advise you to go to a different site where plots are non-existent, characters do whatever the bloody hell they want, and other such things.

And I quite love all the sexual humour...it did amuse me greatly.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 07:41AM to say:

Well, I don't know if the comment function will let me include an URL, but here goes...
Prelude To A Shower

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 07:42AM to say:

Oh, and just to be on the safe side, be aware that the fic I just linked to includes material that could, if viewed the wrong way, sound mucky. ;-)

GinnyMarie came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 01:57PM to say:

Thanks Torak

*reads*

Ahaha...that was amusing to the extreme. You achieved your goal in making something innocent be raunchy. I loved it.

lolamadrid came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 02:49PM to say:

in response to kezzabear: It was a genuine question regarding stories involving Dumbledore's sexuality. There wasn't meant to be a reaction of any sort. I'm really curious as to the policy on this.

AsCendED came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 03:13PM to say:

What is fanfiction, might I ask? It's all about adapting the characters to create your own little world within JKR's. This is a Harry/Ginny Fanfiction Archive, not a Harry/Ginny (who must also be the exact same Harry/Ginny as Rowling intended) Fanfiction Archive. We don't know anything about what happened after the Epilogue, so if you are restricting an author's right to change the character to fit his or her own interpretations, then you should also disallow any sort of post-epilogue stories. It would be hypocritical not to. Oh, and slash as well as all other forms or genres. Do you see what I'm getting at? If Harry can't become a binge drinker if, per say, Ginny is murdered by a rouge Death Eater after the Battle of Hogwarts, then he also shouldn't be able to shift dimensions, have soul bonds, or anything else that shifts Harry from JKR's Potterverse to our own.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 03:48PM to say:

Ascended, there are a number of ways in which you're wrong, but the main thing is that you can change the situation, but not the characters.

Alternatively, we could try the theory that this is, after all, a privately-owned site and the owner sets the rules. It's as simple as that.

Moxterminator came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 06:35PM to say:

My neville in MY story is very OCC, does this mean i can't write him that way anymore? i hope not since he is a main character and important to the plot. my neville isnt a nervous lack in confidence guy, but i''' argue that two years hanging out with ron hermione harry ands ginny would change him. is my neville and my story safe? or do i have to change him back to the nervous idiot he was or cna i kepe him the way he is?

QwayMelqnu came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 06:47PM to say:

Moxterminator: You're Neville should be fine. You provided the reasoning yourself - Spending 2 years with Ron, Harry, Hermione and Ginny changed him into who he is in your story.

Now if you decided to give Neville too much confidence to where he might walk up to Lavender and say, "You , me, broom closet, now bleeotch!" - That's where you might have a problem.

elaithin came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 08:47PM to say:

And really, even that kind of attitude is okay - as long as there's a plausible reason for it. (Though, granted, I can't see *why* Neville would be that forward, or crude.) The plausibility thing, though - that's the key thing that most of us who objected were missing. Now, though, that point's been made perfectly clear.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.01.31 - 08:57PM to say:

Exactly; indeed, almost any characterisation can be sanctioned - if the situation justifies it.

That's the whole point of fanfic, in my view; exploring how the given characters would behave and evolve given changed circumstances. If Neville had fallen in with a gang in his early teens, he might well have evolved to Qway's bleach example, but to be plausible he still has to evolve from that same kernel of character.

And THAT'S the point I've been trying to find all evening.

(Oh, and if anybody's interested in funk music, google for "Not So Grand Funk Jam Band". They're a band from Finland, all of them pretty young, and they are quite frankly astonishingly good.)

KateriBella came out of the woodwork on 2008.02.02 - 10:53PM to say:

torak, I clicked on your "Prelude to a Shower" link -- laughed my rear off! Sorry that I don't have anything to actually say about the subject -- I'm kind of ambivalent about it.

Torak came out of the woodwork on 2008.02.03 - 08:24PM to say:

What, decorating? I'm not overly keen on the implied subject, but I do enjoy baiting people who are even less keen, so it all works out. ;-)

Chrysanthemum came out of the woodwork on 2008.02.26 - 01:14AM to say:

I wish I had commented on this news earlier, but I'd just like to say that I applaud this new rule. Having just deleted five stories (a series) that I downloaded from SIYE for this exact reason, I hope that SIYE will look carefully at some of the stories they have previously approved top see if they still align with this new rule. As Sovran mentioned above, having the canon characters in AU is interesting because we get to see how they react to new situations, and how they are changed by them. But stories where the characters are fundamentally different, even when in AU stories where several events follow canon, is extremely irritating. I'm not talking about things like having Harry sorted into Slytherin (I'd actually really like to read a story where this occurs, but Harry is still recognizable) but rather stories where Harry is an arrogant, cold, manipulative brat, whom everyone inexplicably thinks is so "mature" for his years.......and every strong, loyal, kind male character has been written as bumbling, idiotic, jocular charicatures of their former selves. I know this does not fall under the exact wording of this new rule, but in my opinion, this kind of destruction of the canon characters is offensive, and should be questioned on a private website.

yanmaneee came out of the woodwork on 2020.04.03 - 03:03PM to say: