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SIYE Time:12:57 on 29th March 2024
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News
Rule Change
I would like to discuss the calibre of stories being submitted to SIYE. Lately, I have received emails questioning why anyone would read some of the stories as they are so poorly written, and asking why SIYE would validate a story with easily corrected errors. This is not limited to SIYE; many other sites have noticed the downward spiral of their stories. To try to stop this trend, we instituted the Dumbledore Silver Trinket Awards program, and I am sad to say that it hasn’t helped.

Many authors take pride in their stories and want to submit the best possible writing that they can. They use a Beta. They run a spell check and grammar program. They read the story over more than once and edit it accordingly.

Unfortunately, we are still getting submissions with less than stellar quality. It is to these authors that I am addressing this news item.

There has been a change in the wording of Submission Rule #6. It now states:

Please check for grammar and spelling errors. Your fiction CAN be denied if we find a 'Canon' spelling error (anything from the HP world - names, places, spells, etc) or if the staff feels that the number of errors detract from the story.

As of this evening, any story submitted with punctuation, spelling and grammar errors will be declined and returned to the author, with the suggestion of finding a Beta. It doesn’t have to be anyone on the Beta List; it can be your mom, dad, friend, co-worker, sibling or anyone else that has a grasp of the English language and the written word.

SIYE has some of the most lenient posting rules of any site that I post on. There will not be a learning curve on this rule. These problems were discussed in January 2006 in this very forum; we are now following that discussion with a rule change. If your story or chapter is rejected, it is your fault. Please do not blame the Archivists, they are doing their job.

Valerie Franklin
Head Administrator
Professor Scroll on 2006.04.13 - 11:47PM ()

Comments



mugglegurl came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 12:17AM to say:

Sweet! At MuggleNet, they do not accept stories with a lot of spelling errors. Although this can be REALLY annoying, it helps the author make a better story and it helps the people that read it. I am really glad you are doing this!



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 12:34AM to say:

Oh grand, here comes the ulcer inducing self doubt as I wait for my story to be validated. Okay, I'm kidding. MG's right, it's annoying, but for the best in the end. I've actually seen a site that has no validation requirements whatsoever. It gets ugly is all I'm saying.



Ginger Snap came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 12:38AM to say:

I am glad to see this too. This addresses why there are very few fan fic sites that I visit. I am curious though...when a fic is declined, how long is the turnaround between being declined, and author notification?



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 12:43AM to say:

Very quick! Not that I've had a lot of experience, oh no. My friend told me. Honest. Seriously, it's not very bad at all. Checkmated is the worst. It took them about three weeks to decline my story. SIYE is probably the quickest site I've dealt with that uses a validation process.



Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 01:01AM to say:

Ginger Snap We send out an email with why the story cannot be accepted before we delete the submission. The time frame varies, depending on the number of submissions and the availability of the staff. Because most of the staff have other responsibilities it is difficult to give a turn around time. At the moment there are only 6 submissions in the queue,



Abregaza came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 07:32AM to say:

I feel that spelling errors are the worst. Just using a spell checker or re-reading the work before posting seems to be beyond some authors and it certainly becomes annoying as a reader to have simple spellling errors in fic again and again. Grammar is something that I struggle with, and I've found it doesn't bother me as much (maybe because i don't know when others are breaking grammatical rules) - the point of this, is thank you SIYE for taking this positive step. As a reader (who intends to write H/G fiction with the aim of submitting to SIYE) I'm glad to see this action, I always feel that the staff on this site are working hard towards quality, and look forward to many more high quality submissions to keep me amused.



LadyTonks came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 08:17AM to say:

I do have friends who now refuse to come here because of the lack of quality stories. As an author, I want to know if my story has many grammar and spelling errors. There are places on the net that you can post anything. This should not be one of those places. I applaud your stand here! LT



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 11:57AM to say:

Does anyone know of a good grammer program out there? I usually write in WORD since I can transfer it back and forth from work and home, but it has a habit of changing things to its own version of spelling or trying to input its own words which don't match the sentence if it is broken out on two seperate lines. It doesn't really address punctuation at all. Just curious if anyone knew of a better software. I don't have any Beta's and I only see one listed on this site.



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 11:59AM to say:

I take that back, now there are several Beta's listed now. THanks. I had only seen one for a while and hadn't been back to look in a few days.



wvchemteach came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 02:32PM to say:

lecook4 it switches it back and forth most likely because you have the setting on U.S English on one computer and U.K. English on the other.



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 02:39PM to say:

LOL!!! I didn't even know you could set that! I'll have to look. Thanks.



DQBunny came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 04:07PM to say:

lecook4: Usually, the best grammar program is to read it back yourself or entrust it to a beta reader. I don't trust the ones built into Word or other programs like that. I also struggle with some grammar issues as well. Hurray for the Alabama public school system. Spell check won't find homonyms and other words that are spelled correctly, but used in the wrong context. They also won't catch the times you misspelled someone's name despite re-reading the story very carefully before you post it (sorry, Colin!) I really need to just get over my beta fears and find one myself.



potterfan226 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 04:28PM to say:

I'm very glad for this rule to be enforced. I read a few stories here where it had a good plotline, but the spelling is just horrible. I mean, yeah the odd mistake here or there is fine, but constantly spelling a word wrong gets annoying. =)



AdminQ came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 04:35PM to say:

i be happy that ths rule is in place. I dont liek to see storys with so many erors it just maeks me madder. I fell that this will imprve the qualty is the postins on the sit. Steve (AdminQ who reminds you to smile, and remeber this is the internet, and fan fiction should be fun, and most importantly better written)



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:01PM to say:

DQBunny if you find a good Beta let me know. I do read my stories back to myself, but it is a lot like the "forest for the trees" issue. Sometimes I just don't see the error. (Colin for example can be Colin or Collin depending. I know it is Colin in HP but I have a co-worker who is Collin. It looks normal for me and I don't always see it.) I guess I need a Beta too.



dramaqueen came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:03PM to say:

Thsi rule will GREATLY help the site...and the archivists. As an archivist, it drives me up the wall to see a story with simple spelling errors that could be caught in MSWord or a similar program--anything with a spell checker. I'm a huge stickler for grammar, but I'm nicer about it because it's sometimes harder to catch (not to mention there are about fity different rules about how and when to use a comma). When you're editing your own stories, my personal recommendation is to read the sotry backwards. Read the last sentence. Then read the second to last. Keep going up until you finish. The reason this helps is because when you read it all the way thorugh, your brain will automatically fill in gaps because you wrote the story and you know what should be there. When you read the story backwards, your brain can't do that. :)



whimsy came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:21PM to say:

DQBunny mentioned the problem wiith homophones such as "capitol" and "capital". A similar error which will pass a spell checker is when a word is mispelled but the mispelling is itself a word, e.g. "rouge" instead of "rogue".



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:26PM to say:

dramaqueen OMG that is so simple it is bloody brilliant. That has been my biggest problem. My brain does automatically fill in what it knows should be there. I love that idea. I told you, "forest for the trees." LOL! That is just so... I'm now embarrassed that I never thought of doing that. :-)



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:38PM to say:

Well, folks (particularly you lecook), I'm not an official beta, but I have no problems acting as one if anyone wants to contact me. My grammar's pretty solid, and I'm even better when I'm reading someone else's stuff than my own. After I'm done writing the current series of stories I'm working on, I think I may hang up my pen and just do whatever is required to become an official beta. Until then, I offer my services, but want to stay off the list so I can still spend a lot of time focusing on my writing. Of course, no I'm going to sit here and fret over every error I've made in this post. Ever notice that? Whenever someone claims they have decent grammar, you can almost always pick out a mistake. I just think it's funnily ironic...



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 05:40PM to say:

And look at that... on top of other things, I failed to spell the unbelievably complex word, "now" wrong. I rock so hard.



brittpinkie came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:01PM to say:

I've never had a beta either, and sometimes there are errors in my stories. But one thing I've started doing is printing out each chapter before posting and proofreading it. This helps SO much. You're more likely to find mistakes on paper. I also try to read my hard copy a few hours later, while at on campus at my college or something- a different environment will also help you spot mistakes as well. Anyway, I think this is a great rule...it'll only make SIYE a better site, :)



Cassie Payne came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:14PM to say:

Great idea, but I have to admit it makes me a tad nervous. I used a beta once on another site, and it was a nightmare. I had to point her to pages in Webster's to defend my work! Anyone have any ideas of how to be sure you are getting a competent beta? (I love drama queens idea, though. I'm off to read current chapter sdrawkcab.)



Cassie Payne came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:15PM to say:

Gee, who turned on the bold, and how do we turn it off?



Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:25PM to say:

I usually do the backwards tip before sending to my beta. Another tip one of my professors told me to do was to read it out loud slowly looking at each word as you have it. You will find the cadence of the sentences. It will help with commas and punctuation and, greatly helps with dialog.



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:30PM to say:

I think I turned it on by mistake. Maybe I can turn it off.
Let's see if that worked.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 06:44PM to say:

Yeah, the reading out loud one is good. That's what I do, or used to do. Got so used to it that I don't actually make noise anymore. Doesn't catch homonyms though. That and sometimes it'll get me in a situation where I misuse commas as I know what I want the sentence to sound like, but sometimes you can't shift the commas to make it sound like that. So there are my two main issues, homonyms and commas. Does the whole it's/its count as a homonym? Either way, that one kicks my butt.



cori_b came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 08:08PM to say:

Cassie Payne if you need a competant beta then look no further than our beta list. Thats right, all of our betas as of right now have passed a test in order to be put on the site so if you want you can chat with some of them.



ChickenIsGood came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 08:16PM to say:

This has me a tid bit woried right now. My stories aren't quite perfect. Reading out loud is what I've always been told. I think the reading backwards is great. I'm off to find a beta.



cwarbeck came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 09:26PM to say:

Just to add my two cents worth, it is highly annoying to be reading a promising story and then get progressively distracted by numerous spelling and grammar errors - especially when the tenses are all confused! It makes for a big headache and I usually wind up not finishing the story. So, this rule amendment will only make the quality of the stories submitted even better. On a totally different track, this comments section makes me think that SIYE needs a forum. Is that possible?



DQBunny came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 09:58PM to say:

Grimmrook, I think its/it's counts as a homonym. Cassie Payne, I too had nightmare experiences with betas. For me, a beta isn't just someone who fact-checks my stories, but to bounce story ideas off of, discuss plot elements, etc. The best beta I ever had was for the Sailormoon fandom. She would go through my copy and not just point out the errors, but would make the most humorous observations in addition to the criticism. Her critiques were awesome, made my stories 100 percent better and usually had me on the floor laughing. I really wish I hadn't lost my old e-mails with those critiques. Even though I know the betas here are certified, I'm still very nervous about searching for a new one.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 09:58PM to say:

I had thought that I learned my lesson regarding asking stupid questions. Apparently not. I've ran through the FAQ's and such, and I haven't found the answer, so what I would like to know is how does one become an official beta?



cori_b came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 10:10PM to say:

Grimmrook excellent question, and I have just the answer. If you want to be a beta for SIYE you can e-mail me at cori_b[at]siye.co.uk with a short paragraph explaining why you would want to be a beta. Then we will send you a test that you must pass with a min. 80% if you pass then you send in a Beta Blurb which is a small caption about you and your editing... after I receive that blurb you are a beta! You are added to the list and ready for business.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 10:10PM to say:

Well, I'll tell ya... For Right Here and One Good Day, I didn't use a beta, and that turned out okay. When Spencer Hemmingway reviewed the first three chapters, he caught a grammatical error and I never make it anymore. With "Epilogues Part I: Shadows" (of which currently two chapters are up... please read and review), I went from zero betas to three. Going into the project I wasn't worried about grammar, but I was deeply worried about content as I knew it was going to be a significantly more difficult story to write compared to my first two. In the end, the writing of the story itself was very painful, but working with all three of the betas was, and continues to be, an absolute pleasure. As DQB points out, in this story it was all about bouncing ideas off of each other and arguing over what worked and what didn't. I'm still very apprehensive on how the story will go over in reviews, but I know for a fact that if I went solo on this one, it would be much worse. Plus, I like to think I made three new friends, and that's always nice. Okay, time to get off the sappy soapbox. Thanks for the info DQB. Never even thought about that until today.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.14 - 10:11PM to say:

Awesomeness Cori, thanks for the info.



gryffindorchaser17 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 12:01AM to say:

I think this is a great idea. I hate having to guess what is being said because of bad grammar or spelling. I think this will greatly help both readers and authors. It will allow the readers to give comments/criticisms based on the merits of the story. This in turn will help the authors to write a better story. I'm really glad to see this.



parakletos came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 06:24AM to say:

I think this is a good step to take. I don't visit the site very often these days because its hard to find the better fics amongst the others. I would encourage everyone who thinks that this may adversely affect them to use this to improve their writing. We can all always improve what we write and a lot of useful suggestions have already been made.



Mandatora came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 08:46AM to say:

That's a good rule. It's so annoying reading stories that have bad grammar and stuff. like when people use words the wrong way like "too" instead of "two" or whatever. And it's also annoying when they spell things from the books wrong. I mean hello it's right there!



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 08:59AM to say:

Cori... I'm taking the Perfect Imagination test right now. I'll see how that goes. If everything turns out okay, I'll probably take SIYE's test too.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 09:07AM to say:

Mandatora: Homonyms can be a bit jarring, but I'm a little more lenient on spelling things according to canon for a very specific reason. See I didn't actually read the books, at least not for the first few years I was into HP. No, I heard them. I'm a huge fan of audio books, and the initial reason I got hooked on Harry Potter was because of Jim Dale's very awesome reading. He does the American version, and his performances have earned him a Grammy. So while I knew the names and things, I had no clue on the spelling. It wasn't until after my daughter was born that I actually bought the books, and to this day I still only own book six on cd so to learn how to spell something like Merope (see, probably spelled that wrong) I would have to do research. So, I guess I'm pretty forgiving on the names for that reason.



ChickenIsGood came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 04:11PM to say:

Thank's for making this rule. Not only will it encourage better work on this site, but it caused me to get two betas. Go Administraters



Sir Ollivander came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 08:46PM to say:

Grimmrook and everybody else - there is a very good website that is all Harry Potter called THE LEXICON. It has everything about people, places, spells, potions, animals, teachers, students and a lot more. It is a perfect place for all to visit just for the background knowledge and reference. It is at http://www.hp-lexicon.org/index-2.html. Enjoy.



lecook4 came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.15 - 10:49PM to say:

Sir Ollivander Thanks for the tip about The Lexicon. I do a lot of my writing on my lunch hour and am not able to look up info in the books. This will be a great help.



DQBunny came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 08:17AM to say:

Yup, I love the Lexicon. It's very easy to use and saves lots of time in cross-referencing the books, etc. Such a wonderful resource.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 09:21AM to say:

Thanks. I think I used it once without realizing it. For the third chapter of my current fic, I had to reproduce the CoS Valentine. Came across it in a google search.



melindaleo came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 09:36AM to say:

Hooray. This is the best news I've heard from SIYE in quite awhile. I hope it helps.



Torak came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 09:57AM to say:

BOO YEAH! Heaven... I'm in heaven... / and I'll kill a fic that doesn't learn to speak. / For a story where the spelling is too weak / will be gone and out of here within a week. THANK YOU! Now I can kill fics on grounds of being rubbish... oh, no. Not quite. But at least I can kil teh wunz that like are riten like in txt spk an no speling.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 12:45PM to say:

Well, I got my Beta creds over at Perfect Imagination, I guess I'll work on getting them here too.



Sibling Creature came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.16 - 03:11PM to say:

I'm impressed that the response to this news has been so favourable... I may start reading more new submissions now... recently unless there was something that really got my attention in the summary, I would generally ignore a story unless it was by an author I already knew I liked. What really gets me these days are canon spelling errors, especially considering how easy it is to look these things up in the lexicon.



Strider came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.18 - 06:05PM to say:

I just want to add my support to Professor Scroll and the admins for insisting on at least a minimum level of quality. Thanks, y'all. Strider



Ginger Snap came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.18 - 11:10PM to say:

One thing I would like to reiterate from my beta profile...this is for all the authors out there...a beta is not a spell checker! I really do not like being sent a story to beta and find out that I have to correct every fifth word. By the time you get your story to a beta, you should already have most of the mechanics cleaned up. You should have at least proofread it a couple of times. A beta is there to bounce ideas off of. The help with characterizations, plot issues, canon issues, dialogue, conveying ideas. Of course they should help fix spelling, grammar and punctuation issues, but the author should already have most of that cleaned up already. This is just my own opinion. It does not reflect or imply in any way any endoresment from this site, or any other author or beta :)



Spellcaster came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.19 - 10:09PM to say:

I will say I have been sad to see the quality of submissions slipping over the past months. I applaud the admin for stepping up to try and correct an easily correctable issue. Even the best of stories can be a chore to read if you are constantly trying to decipher spelling mistakes. Spell-check is the easiest of functions to use on most word processing programs and can greatly add to the quality of any fic. Bravo Admin!



Laura Laurent came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.19 - 10:20PM to say:

Okay, so this is old news, I'm behind the times, yada yada. I'm glad we have this new rule, I'm sure it will better the overall quality of the stories on this site, and furthermore I trust that SIYE, while enforcing a certain basic standard in mechanics, will not become too snobby either. Okay, so I'm bitter, but the reason that SIYE is my favorite archive---the place where I respond to every single review---is that A.) my stories have actually been accepted here, and B.) that I have not had to go through a some randome mandatory beta reader who gnaws at my story and gets rid of any and all mildly unusual word combinations, which I deliberately wrote for emphasis or---heaven forbid---a little creativity(!)



Laura Laurent came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.19 - 10:24PM to say:

::reading over last comment:: ...And makes me so irritated I can't ever write in discernable English! ;-)



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.20 - 09:17AM to say:

Laura SIYE is not the easiest site to submit on. I've been to that site. It has no validation, and I guarantee you... well. It can get downright bad sometimes. On the upside, Cori-B just got to me saying I'm officially a Beta here so if anyone needs any help, I'd be more than happy!



Professor Scroll came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.20 - 09:58AM to say:

Laura Although, we might not be the easiest site to post on, as long as the mildly unuaual word combinations are spelled correctly, you shouldn't have any problem. Add to that, get some brilliant feedback for your story as we have some of the most prolific and knowledgeable reviewers. around.



DQBunny came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.20 - 06:33PM to say:

Grimmrook I may be e-mailing you for your services! Laura: I agree with you completely. I've got a story that's currently in its 10th chapter here that has yet to be assigned to a beta reader on another site. Random betas really scare me. I'd rather have one I can pick.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.20 - 09:32PM to say:

DQBunny I'll be your huckleberry.



Grimmrook came out of the woodwork on 2006.04.20 - 09:39PM to say:

Oh man, and when it comes to the randoms. I ever go into my checkmated rant? I tried posting Right Here on checkmated. I waited THREE WEEKS and nothing. Their little thingy that tells you you have a beta assigned didn't even change from n/a. And I'm obsessive, I checked like hourly. Finally, after three weeks, I get a rejection e-mail. My invisible, randomly appointed, beta had this for my reasons for rejection: "-comma usage -poor characterization -formatting" That's it. Nice and vague. The funny thing was the e-mail was easily 800-1000 words, all of it cookie cutter crap about not giving up writing, and that kind of thing. Instead of giving me 800 words of recycled, carbon copied fluff, give me 200 words on things I can actually fix. Couldn't tell me what characters I got wrong, or how, or what was wrong with my formatting or nothing. OOOOHHHH, that happened a month ago and I'm still steamed. So that's how I critique a work. I don't care if you tell me what I wrote sucked, tell me how it sucked and what I need to do to fix it. Breathe... breathe... calm blue ocean. Okay rant over... back to obsessively checking my action log to see if the third chapter to Epilogues gets validated.


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